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動態
本期仁醫醫療特別邀請到國際著名脊柱專家Daniel J. Rosenthal教授做專題訪問。Rosenthal教授現任德國巴德洪堡高陶努斯醫院脊柱外科主任，曾擔任德國脊柱學會主席(2013年)。
Daniel J. Rosenthal教授出生於阿根廷並在阿根廷完成了醫學學業，畢業後他赴德國法蘭克福大學進行進一步的醫學研究，並取得博士學位。他從 1992 年到 1996 年擔任德國法蘭克福大學附屬醫院神經外科主任和副院長。在胸腔鏡脊柱手術方麵，他有極大的成就。
精彩回顧
戳視頻 搶先看
1、您出生於阿根廷並在阿根廷完成了醫學學業，能否分享一下您早年在祖國的經曆？
As you was born and finished your medical study in Argentina, could you please share with us your early experience in your home country?
我在英文學校接受了14年的教育，後來我在家鄉羅薩裏奧學習醫學。當時的羅薩裏奧是阿根廷的第二大城市，現在是第三大城市了。24歲那年我通過考試正式成為了一名醫生。40年nian後hou回hui想xiang起qi來lai，我wo在zai家jia鄉xiang度du過guo了le最zui美mei好hao的de時shi光guang，我wo有you很hen多duo陪pei伴ban我wo的de朋peng友you，我wo的de學xue習xi充chong實shi，空kong餘yu時shi間jian我wo會hui去qu打da橄gan欖lan球qiu，所suo以yi我wo的de時shi間jian安an排pai得de很hen滿man。
I was educated for fourteen years in an English school. And after that I started my medicine studies in my hometown, that's Rosario. At that time, it was the second biggest city in Argentina, now I think it's the third. And at the age of 24, I was fully approved as a medical doctor. So those were, forty years later, the best times I had. A lot of friends, a lot of stress with study and tests, and apart from that I was playing rugby, so I had a pretty occupied timetable.
2、畢業後，您為什麼會選擇赴德深造並決定留在德國開啟您的醫學職業生涯？
After graduation, why did you choose to further your study in Germany and decide to stay there to start your career in medicine?
雖然我出生在阿根廷，但是我的家族、我的父母都是德國人。我和我的兄弟是我們家族700多年來唯一不在德國出生的成員，我們的家譜也可以證實。
我wo選xuan擇ze到dao德de國guo深shen造zao的de原yuan因yin很hen簡jian單dan，因yin為wei我wo想xiang在zai更geng好hao的de教jiao育yu環huan境jing裏li完wan成cheng學xue業ye。所suo以yi當dang時shi我wo幾ji乎hu把ba所suo有you的de申shen請qing信xin都dou投tou去qu了le德de國guo的de學xue校xiao。我wo本ben來lai也ye有you機ji會hui去qu西xi班ban牙ya或huo者zhe瑞rui士shi的de學xue校xiao，但dan是shi當dang時shi我wo有you一yi位wei在zai法fa蘭lan克ke福fu的de舅jiu舅jiu，他ta是shi城cheng中zhong資zi曆li最zui深shen的de醫yi師shi，他ta和he我wo說shuo：“你來德國吧，我會盡力指導你的學業”。suoyiwozaideguodeqianshinianwodejiujiufeichangzhaoguwo。qishiwozaideguowanchengzhuankejinxiuhouyijinghenshuxideguoyiyuanderichanggongzuoliucheng，erqiedangshiwodeshiyeyezaikuaisuqibujieduan。zhejiushiwoxuanzeliuzaideguojixuyixueshiyedeyuanyin。
I was born in Argentina, but my family, it's a German from father and mother's side. And in fact my brother and I were the only ones born outside Germany in almost 700 years of history that we were able to follow back in our genealogy. The reason why I chose Germany was simply that I wanted to have a better education in my specialist career. And that's why I sent all my applications, not only to Germany, but the vast majority of them were sent to Germany. I had also the chance to be accepted in Spain or in Switzerland. But at that time, I had in Frankfurt an uncle of mine who was the oldest physician practicing medicine in the city. So he told me, “Just come over here and I will try to guide you and help you.” And he did it for almost ten years after I arrived in Germany.
In fact, I forgot to say I decided then, when I finished with my specialization, I was already pretty much involved in a clinic daily routine and I was just climbing positions, so that was the reason why I stayed here and continued my medical career.
3、您為什麼學醫，又為什麼決定專注於脊柱微創手術呢？
Why did you decide to pursue a career in medicine and why, in particular, did you decide to specialize in the minimally invasive spine surgery?
我(wo)一(yi)直(zhi)都(dou)對(dui)醫(yi)學(xue)或(huo)者(zhe)說(shuo)自(zi)然(ran)科(ke)學(xue)感(gan)興(xing)趣(qu)，我(wo)覺(jiao)得(de)研(yan)究(jiu)動(dong)植(zhi)物(wu)的(de)自(zi)然(ran)生(sheng)命(ming)周(zhou)期(qi)是(shi)非(fei)常(chang)讓(rang)人(ren)著(zhe)迷(mi)的(de)。讀(du)完(wan)高(gao)中(zhong)後(hou)我(wo)就(jiu)決(jue)定(ding)從(cong)事(shi)和(he)自(zi)然(ran)科(ke)學(xue)相(xiang)關(guan)的(de)職(zhi)業(ye)。當(dang)時(shi)我(wo)對(dui)獸(shou)醫(yi)學(xue)不(bu)太(tai)感(gan)興(xing)趣(qu)，因(yin)為(wei)阿(e)根(gen)廷(ting)的(de)獸(shou)醫(yi)學(xue)是(shi)個(ge)很(hen)狹(xia)窄(zhai)的(de)學(xue)科(ke)。這(zhe)個(ge)學(xue)科(ke)與(yu)農(nong)工(gong)業(ye)有(you)關(guan)，獸(shou)醫(yi)的(de)大(da)部(bu)分(fen)時(shi)間(jian)都(dou)在(zai)照(zhao)顧(gu)牛(niu)群(qun)和(he)豬(zhu)群(qun)，它(ta)們(men)是(shi)阿(e)根(gen)廷(ting)農(nong)業(ye)經(jing)濟(ji)中(zhong)最(zui)重(zhong)要(yao)的(de)組(zu)成(cheng)部(bu)分(fen)。所(suo)以(yi)我(wo)的(de)選(xuan)擇(ze)很(hen)有(you)限(xian)，實(shi)驗(yan)室(shi)的(de)工(gong)作(zuo)也(ye)不(bu)適(shi)合(he)我(wo)，我(wo)覺(jiao)得(de)它(ta)很(hen)無(wu)聊(liao)，所(suo)以(yi)最(zui)後(hou)我(wo)決(jue)定(ding)學(xue)醫(yi)。至(zhi)於(yu)為(wei)什(shen)麼(me)選(xuan)擇(ze)專(zhuan)注(zhu)於(yu)微(wei)創(chuang)手(shou)術(shu)，其(qi)實(shi)我(wo)並(bing)沒(mei)有(you)特(te)意(yi)選(xuan)擇(ze)專(zhuan)攻(gong)微(wei)創(chuang)，更(geng)多(duo)的(de)是(shi)一(yi)種(zhong)機(ji)緣(yuan)巧(qiao)合(he)。九(jiu)十(shi)年(nian)代(dai)初(chu)，我(wo)做(zuo)了(le)很(hen)多(duo)脊(ji)柱(zhu)前(qian)路(lu)手(shou)術(shu)。1991年(nian)我(wo)和(he)我(wo)的(de)兄(xiong)弟(di)共(gong)同(tong)發(fa)明(ming)了(le)胸(xiong)腔(qiang)鏡(jing)手(shou)術(shu)。從(cong)那(na)時(shi)起(qi)，我(wo)就(jiu)自(zi)然(ran)而(er)然(ran)地(di)專(zhuan)注(zhu)於(yu)現(xian)在(zai)的(de)微(wei)創(chuang)手(shou)術(shu)了(le)，因(yin)為(wei)這(zhe)種(zhong)前(qian)路(lu)手(shou)術(shu)對(dui)脊(ji)柱(zhu)的(de)損(sun)傷(shang)比(bi)較(jiao)小(xiao)。
Medicine was always, let's say natural sciences, was always an interesting topic for me, and I found it fascinating to read about the normal cycles of plants or animals. And I think when I was finishing high school, I already took the decision, that I wanted to pursue some careers related to natural sciences. Veterinarian medicine didn't attract me so much, at that time at least, because in Argentina it's a very narrow field. That's mainly to do with the agro-industry, so the majority of the time you are looking after cows and pigs who are the most important economical branch of the Argentinian agriculture economy. So I didn't have too much left over, but laboratory was not an option for me, because it was pretty boring from my point of view, so I decided to get into medicine. That was the reason why I decided to apply for a career in the medical sector.
And concerning minimally invasive surgery, I didn't decide myself to specialize in minimally invasive, it was more a lucky circumstance, because at the beginning of the nineties, I was working a lot with anterior approaches to the spine, and together with my brother we developed the thorascopic technique, that was 1991. So since then I've been mainly or formally pushed into what it is called minimally invasive surgery, in this situation, it would be less aggressive approaches to the spine.
4、您的早年經曆如何塑造你的成就？
How did your early youth experience shape your success?
我(wo)的(de)早(zao)年(nian)經(jing)曆(li)對(dui)我(wo)所(suo)取(qu)得(de)的(de)成(cheng)就(jiu)影(ying)響(xiang)不(bu)大(da)。我(wo)天(tian)生(sheng)是(shi)一(yi)個(ge)擅(shan)長(chang)理(li)性(xing)分(fen)析(xi)的(de)人(ren)，我(wo)對(dui)事(shi)物(wu)充(chong)滿(man)好(hao)奇(qi)，喜(xi)歡(huan)對(dui)複(fu)雜(za)疑(yi)難(nan)問(wen)題(ti)尋(xun)根(gen)問(wen)底(di)。正(zheng)因(yin)如(ru)此(ci)，我(wo)當(dang)時(shi)開(kai)始(shi)研(yan)究(jiu)全(quan)新(xin)的(de)手(shou)術(shu)入(ru)路(lu)。我(wo)覺(jiao)得(de)自(zi)己(ji)很(hen)幸(xing)運(yun)，能(neng)夠(gou)有(you)機(ji)會(hui)進(jin)入(ru)脊(ji)柱(zhu)外(wai)科(ke)這(zhe)個(ge)當(dang)時(shi)剛(gang)剛(gang)起(qi)步(bu)的(de)領(ling)域(yu)。總(zong)而(er)言(yan)之(zhi)，我(wo)不(bu)覺(jiao)得(de)我(wo)的(de)早(zao)年(nian)經(jing)曆(li)對(dui)我(wo)的(de)職(zhi)業(ye)生(sheng)涯(ya)，還(hai)有(you)我(wo)在(zai)脊(ji)柱(zhu)領(ling)域(yu)耕(geng)耘(yun)近(jin)30年取得的成功有太大的影響。
I don't think that my youth experience had a big influence in success. I am by nature a very analytical person, I am curious, I try to find some logical explanations for things that maybe a little bit confused or complicated. And that's the reason why I started developing approaches that at that time didn't exist. I was lucky because I just had the opportunity to get into a field that was just starting to progress and to expand, that’s spine surgery, but I don't think that my youth experience had much influence in the career and the results of almost thirty years of medical practice in spine in my case.
5、您是否有在其他領域投入了您的時間和專業技能？
Do you have other fields in which you are investing your time and know how?
我和我的朋友在阿根廷投資了一個農場，這個農場運營了大概有10年。這是一件非常有趣的事情，我能盡我所能地投入我的時間和知識。
lingyigefangxiangshizaijizhulingyu，danyuruanjiankaifayouguan。wotouzileyijiazuojizhucelianghefenxiruanjiandedeguogongsi。womenjihuakaifachuyigexianjindexitong，bangzhuwaikeyishengzaimeiyoudaohangshebeideqingkuangxiajinxingshoushudaohang。zhegeruanjianxitongshiyizhonghunhejishu，yujizaijinnianniandiwenshi。
Yes, I'm still binding part of it to Argentina where there is a project of agriculture running there since more or less ten years now, together with some of my friends that are also partners, that's a very interesting thing where I'm also dedicating my time and my know how as far as I can. And the other one is in spine field but linked to software. That's a German company that has the software for spinal measurement and analysis. We are pretty far advanced to develop a system that will allow the surgeons to navigate surgery without a navigation device. That's a hybrid and I think we will show it by the end of the year.
6、在您的職業生涯中，是否有對您來說很重要的導師？他們教會您什麼，是如何啟發您的呢？
Who have been your greatest influences? What have they taught you and how have they inspired you?
年少時，我的父母對我影響深遠。後來是我已故的神經外科老師Lorenz教授，還有當時的骨科主任Schmitt教授。Schmitt教jiao授shou深shen刻ke地di影ying響xiang了le我wo對dui脊ji柱zhu疾ji病bing的de認ren識shi。當dang然ran我wo的de同tong事shi和he病bing人ren對dui我wo的de影ying響xiang也ye很hen大da，他ta們men總zong是shi給gei我wo反fan饋kui意yi見jian。我wo認ren為wei同tong事shi和he病bing人ren是shi醫yi生sheng最zui重zhong要yao的de導dao師shi，因yin為wei醫yi學xue是shi動dong態tai的de，它ta時shi刻ke都dou在zai變bian化hua，你ni永yong遠yuan都dou不bu可ke能neng在zai醫yi學xue領ling域yu內nei做zuo到dao完wan美mei。完wan美mei看kan似si一yi步bu之zhi遙yao，實shi則ze觸chu不bu可ke及ji。所suo以yi在zai醫yi學xue領ling域yu真zhen正zheng深shen刻ke影ying響xiang我wo們men的de是shi，我wo們men能neng否fou獲huo得de讓rang自zi己ji和he病bing人ren都dou滿man意yi的de治zhi療liao效xiao果guo。
For sure my greater influences were my parents in my young ages, followed by my teacher in neurosurgery that’s Prof. Lorenz who passed away many years ago, and the head of the orthopedic department at that time, who's Prof. Schmitt who also had a big influence in my way of interpreting spine diseases. And the rest are the influence and the feedback I get from my colleagues and from the patients. I think that the last one, the colleagues and the patients are the most important influences you have in medicine, because that's a dynamic process, it is always changing, and you never achieve the perfection in what you are doing in medicine. You may be close to it, but it will never be perfect. So the real influence you have in medicine is, if you are satisfied and if the patients are satisfied with the results of your surgery or your treatment.
7、2013年您當選成為德國脊柱學會(DWG)主席，能否談談德國脊柱學會在德國醫院和專家中的非凡地位？
In 2013, you were elected as the President of the German Spine Society(DWG), could you please talk about the importance of DWG to the hospitals and specialists in Germany?
德國脊柱學會彙聚了一眾骨科醫生、創chuang傷shang外wai科ke醫yi生sheng和he神shen經jing外wai科ke醫yi生sheng多duo年nian的de努nu力li成cheng果guo。在zai德de國guo，這zhe三san個ge學xue科ke和he脊ji柱zhu疾ji病bing息xi息xi相xiang關guan。德de國guo有you一yi個ge創chuang建jian了le五wu十shi多duo年nian的de脊ji柱zhu研yan究jiu學xue會hui，是shi世shi界jie上shang最zui古gu老lao的de脊ji柱zhu學xue會hui。上shang世shi紀ji九jiu十shi年nian代dai末mo，德de國guo出chu現xian了le第di二er個ge脊ji柱zhu學xue會hui——脊柱外科醫生學會。多年來兩個學會互融互洽，2000年初雙方理念達成一致，德國脊柱學會應運而生。Michael Mayerjiaoshouzuoweideguojizhuxuehuidechuangshizhuxi，taweixuehuidefazhanzhiminglefangxiang，cihoudeguojizhuxuehuiyizhizaipengbofazhan。deguojizhuxuehuishiouzhouzuidadejizhuxuehui，worenweitadeguimohebeimeijizhuxiehuixiangdang，tongyangyongyouzhexiangyushijiedezhimingdu。deguojizhuxuehuitigongleyigehenhaodepingtai，rangsuoyoudetongxingnenggouhuxiangjiaoliu，bicifenxiangbaoshouzhiliao、手術治療脊柱疾病的心得。我們也為護士開展了相關的脊柱治療培訓項目。2013年我們在法蘭克福開展了第一次研討會，把脊柱疾病的護理納入到德國脊柱學會的培訓項目中，這個項目已經進行了近10年。
德國脊柱學會的重要性體現在我們的話語權，我們能夠和醫院、德(de)國(guo)衛(wei)生(sheng)部(bu)以(yi)及(ji)一(yi)些(xie)國(guo)外(wai)組(zu)織(zhi)機(ji)構(gou)在(zai)同(tong)一(yi)語(yu)境(jing)下(xia)交(jiao)流(liu)。從(cong)而(er)避(bi)免(mian)病(bing)人(ren)一(yi)邊(bian)聽(ting)神(shen)經(jing)科(ke)醫(yi)生(sheng)解(jie)釋(shi)治(zhi)療(liao)方(fang)案(an)，一(yi)邊(bian)聽(ting)骨(gu)科(ke)醫(yi)生(sheng)分(fen)析(xi)病(bing)情(qing)，雖(sui)然(ran)雙(shuang)方(fang)意(yi)見(jian)不(bu)合(he)的(de)現(xian)象(xiang)在(zai)全(quan)世(shi)界(jie)普(pu)遍(bian)存(cun)在(zai)。我(wo)們(men)開(kai)展(zhan)了(le)一(yi)個(ge)嚴(yan)格(ge)的(de)培(pei)訓(xun)項(xiang)目(mu)，完(wan)成(cheng)培(pei)訓(xun)的(de)人(ren)員(yuan)會(hui)獲(huo)得(de)證(zheng)書(shu)。這(zhe)份(fen)證(zheng)書(shu)雖(sui)然(ran)不(bu)是(shi)官(guan)方(fang)認(ren)可(ke)證(zheng)書(shu)，但(dan)對(dui)於(yu)病(bing)人(ren)來(lai)說(shuo)，這(zhe)份(fen)證(zheng)書(shu)說(shuo)明(ming)了(le)醫(yi)生(sheng)掌(zhang)握(wo)了(le)一(yi)定(ding)程(cheng)度(du)的(de)知(zhi)識(shi)，能(neng)夠(gou)有(you)效(xiao)治(zhi)療(liao)脊(ji)柱(zhu)疾(ji)病(bing)。
我(wo)們(men)為(wei)醫(yi)院(yuan)設(she)置(zhi)了(le)兩(liang)種(zhong)證(zheng)書(shu)，考(kao)察(cha)醫(yi)院(yuan)工(gong)作(zuo)質(zhi)量(liang)和(he)醫(yi)院(yuan)設(she)備(bei)情(qing)況(kuang)，這(zhe)兩(liang)種(zhong)評(ping)判(pan)指(zhi)標(biao)是(shi)基(ji)於(yu)醫(yi)院(yuan)規(gui)模(mo)和(he)治(zhi)療(liao)病(bing)種(zhong)而(er)設(she)定(ding)的(de)。病(bing)人(ren)在(zai)小(xiao)醫(yi)院(yuan)和(he)大(da)醫(yi)院(yuan)接(jie)受(shou)的(de)醫(yi)療(liao)服(fu)務(wu)是(shi)不(bu)一(yi)樣(yang)的(de)，設(she)備(bei)有(you)限(xian)的(de)小(xiao)醫(yi)院(yuan)隻(zhi)能(neng)治(zhi)療(liao)簡(jian)單(dan)的(de)疾(ji)病(bing)，而(er)大(da)醫(yi)院(yuan)能(neng)夠(gou)治(zhi)療(liao)更(geng)多(duo)種(zhong)類(lei)繁(fan)多(duo)、病程長的疾病，比如創傷、腫瘤和複雜的脊柱疾病。我們的證書分為不同等級，有一級、二er級ji和he三san級ji。醫yi院yuan綜zong合he質zhi量liang最zui高gao是shi一yi級ji，最zui低di是shi三san級ji。所suo以yi德de國guo脊ji柱zhu學xue會hui的de重zhong要yao性xing就jiu體ti現xian在zai為wei脊ji柱zhu外wai科ke的de需xu求qiu發fa聲sheng，無wu論lun何he時shi都dou堅jian決jue捍han衛wei其qi立li場chang。
The DWG is the result of long years of trying to match the interests of orthopedics and trauma surgeons together with neurosurgeons. Those are the three main specialties dealing with spine diseases in Germany at least. We had in Germany for more than fifty years a society called the Society of Investigation in Spine that was I think the oldest society related to spine worldwide. And at the end of the nineties, a second society appeared, and that was the Society of Spine Surgeons. So for a lot of years, the research societies were not competing, but trying to adapt to each other, and at the beginning of 2000, the interests of both societies were similar, and we managed to create the German Spine Society. At that time, Michael Mayer was the one who leaded that way or showed the way to follow, and since then this society hasn't stopped to grow. It's the biggest spine society in Europe and I think it’s the biggest spine society or at least as big as the North American Spine Society, although both of them have a very high level of recognition worldwide. The spine society has now got under one umbrella, all the persons that are willing to share their knowledge, but also their field of expertise in spine treatment, not only operative but also conservative.
We have even started to develop a program for nurses related to spine treatment. And in 2013 in Frankfurt we started with the first symposium where nursing was included in the scientific program of the spine society, and this has been kept for almost last ten years as well. Now the importance we have with this society is that, we are now in the position to talk with the hospitals with the German health authorities or with other groups outside Germany with one language. It is not that the neurosurgeons are explaining something about treatment on the left, and the orthopedics on the right, and they are struggling against each other as it happens in lots of countries worldwide. Here we have a strict program of education that leads you to a certificate, and that gives you at least there's no official recognition for quality, but it's important as I told you, for the patients, if you have that certificate, it means that you've reached a certain amount of knowledge capable to treat effectively and successfully spine diseases. From there, we've moved two certificates for the hospitals, so we have a structure that looks after the quality of the work you are doing at the hospital, how is the hospital equipped and that's based also the degree of structural and also medical part you are treating in the hospital. So it is not the same to have a patient treated in a very little hospital with low infrastructure where they are only treating simple cases compared with a bigger hospital where they are dealing with a lot of pathologies that are also time consuming, and also needed for the population like trauma or tumors or any kind of complex spine surgery. It has a different level of recognition. And we've graded that in Grade one, two and three, being one the clinics were the highest complexity, and three were the lowest one. So the importance of the DWG is that we have now a society that is expressing the needs of the spine surgery, but also defending their positions against whoever and whenever it's needed.
8、在胸腔鏡脊柱手術方麵，您有著極大的成就，請問對此類手術您有什麼心得分享？
You have great achievements in thoracoscopic spine surgery, what insights would you like to share about performing this kind of surgery?
我(wo)認(ren)為(wei)胸(xiong)腔(qiang)鏡(jing)脊(ji)柱(zhu)手(shou)術(shu)本(ben)身(shen)並(bing)不(bu)特(te)別(bie)，隻(zhi)是(shi)需(xu)要(yao)外(wai)科(ke)醫(yi)生(sheng)學(xue)習(xi)使(shi)用(yong)手(shou)術(shu)器(qi)械(xie)，因(yin)為(wei)這(zhe)類(lei)器(qi)械(xie)的(de)長(chang)度(du)比(bi)開(kai)放(fang)手(shou)術(shu)中(zhong)常(chang)用(yong)的(de)長(chang)得(de)多(duo)。這(zhe)項(xiang)技(ji)術(shu)還(hai)有(you)一(yi)個(ge)問(wen)題(ti)，就(jiu)是(shi)它(ta)采(cai)取(qu)的(de)是(shi)前(qian)入(ru)路(lu)，對(dui)於(yu)不(bu)敢(gan)做(zuo)前(qian)入(ru)路(lu)手(shou)術(shu)的(de)醫(yi)生(sheng)來(lai)說(shuo)這(zhe)就(jiu)是(shi)弊(bi)端(duan)。
因為當時歐洲的醫學界認為前入路手術都是一些高難度、危wei險xian的de手shou術shu。但dan事shi實shi恰qia恰qia相xiang反fan，前qian入ru路lu是shi通tong往wang脊ji柱zhu最zui直zhi接jie的de入ru路lu，而er且qie在zai治zhi療liao一yi些xie脊ji柱zhu疾ji病bing上shang，它ta的de創chuang傷shang性xing更geng小xiao。熟shu悉xi掌zhang握wo這zhe項xiang技ji術shu最zui重zhong要yao的de是shi多duo花hua時shi間jian學xue習xi，獲huo得de更geng大da的de信xin心xin。
1991年我研發出這項技術時，很多同行覺得操作這項手術要承受很大壓力，而且對於他們來說前入路手術是一個全新的、未(wei)知(zhi)的(de)領(ling)域(yu)，所(suo)以(yi)他(ta)們(men)把(ba)病(bing)人(ren)推(tui)薦(jian)到(dao)我(wo)的(de)診(zhen)所(suo)。當(dang)然(ran)我(wo)非(fei)常(chang)感(gan)謝(xie)他(ta)們(men)的(de)推(tui)薦(jian)，經(jing)過(guo)大(da)量(liang)的(de)手(shou)術(shu)積(ji)累(lei)，讓(rang)我(wo)在(zai)胸(xiong)腔(qiang)鏡(jing)手(shou)術(shu)治(zhi)療(liao)胸(xiong)椎(zhui)退(tui)行(xing)性(xing)疾(ji)病(bing)方(fang)麵(mian)得(de)到(dao)高(gao)度(du)認(ren)可(ke)。
It's difficult to say. I think it's nothing special on the technique, except that the surgeons have to learn how to work with the longer instruments than they are used to in an open surgery. One of the biggest problems, or I don't call it a problem, but the drawbacks of the technique is that, it uses an anterior approach. That's a drawback for those who are afraid to perform anterior approaches, because anterior approaches at least in Europe are surrounded by a sort of aura that means a difficult surgery, dangerous surgery and it's exactly the opposite. It's the most direct approach to the spine and it's the less aggressive technique to treat some spinal diseases. The most important thing is to dedicate some time and use that time to gain confidence in order to get used to this kind of technique and this kind of approach, there is nothing spectacular in the technique itself. The result is that, when I developed that in 1991, a lot of people had decided that they don't have the intention to deal with stress and with all the unknown world of anterior approaches for them, so they are sending the patients to my clinic which I appreciate a lot. And that's the reason why I got such a big recognition concerning thoracoscopic approaches mainly for the degenerative disease of the thoracic spine.
9、能否分享一下您治療過的最具挑戰性且最印象深刻的病例？
Could you please share one case that you think is the most challenging and impressive one?
我(wo)回(hui)想(xiang)了(le)很(hen)多(duo)以(yi)前(qian)的(de)病(bing)例(li)，但(dan)是(shi)我(wo)真(zhen)的(de)找(zhao)不(bu)出(chu)一(yi)個(ge)最(zui)重(zhong)要(yao)或(huo)者(zhe)說(shuo)最(zui)令(ling)人(ren)印(yin)象(xiang)深(shen)刻(ke)的(de)病(bing)例(li)，你(ni)可(ke)能(neng)會(hui)驚(jing)訝(ya)於(yu)病(bing)變(bian)的(de)複(fu)雜(za)程(cheng)度(du)或(huo)者(zhe)出(chu)人(ren)意(yi)料(liao)的(de)手(shou)術(shu)效(xiao)果(guo)。但(dan)是(shi)我(wo)認(ren)為(wei)每(mei)一(yi)個(ge)病(bing)例(li)都(dou)非(fei)常(chang)重(zhong)要(yao)。其(qi)實(shi)不(bu)用(yong)被(bei)病(bing)例(li)嚇(xia)到(dao)，比(bi)方(fang)說(shuo)很(hen)多(duo)人(ren)看(kan)到(dao)片(pian)子(zi)時(shi)會(hui)先(xian)入(ru)為(wei)主(zhu)覺(jiao)得(de)病(bing)情(qing)很(hen)複(fu)雜(za)。
我認為我們這裏是沒有令人印象深刻的“病例”，但有令人印象深刻的“手術效果”，因yin為wei有you時shi手shou術shu順shun利li但dan術shu後hou效xiao果guo不bu如ru人ren意yi，或huo是shi手shou術shu進jin行xing得de不bu太tai順shun利li，但dan術shu後hou效xiao果guo出chu乎hu意yi料liao。我wo認ren為wei對dui於yu醫yi生sheng來lai說shuo，每mei一yi個ge病bing例li都dou很hen重zhong要yao且qie印yin象xiang深shen刻ke。我wo可ke以yi給gei你ni展zhan示shi大da量liang成cheng功gong手shou術shu摘zhai除chu大da椎zhui間jian盤pan突tu出chu的de病bing例li，我wo也ye可ke以yi給gei你ni展zhan示shi一yi個ge由you小xiao椎zhui間jian盤pan突tu出chu導dao致zhi嚴yan重zhong神shen經jing功gong能neng障zhang礙ai的de病bing例li，這zhe類lei手shou術shu難nan度du不bu大da，病bing人ren手shou術shu後hou就jiu完wan全quan康kang複fu了le，所suo以yi令ling人ren印yin象xiang深shen刻ke這zhe個ge標biao準zhun在zai我wo看kan來lai是shi相xiang對dui的de。
When I read the question I was trying to remember one. But I really don't have one case that is the most important one if you call it like that or the most impressive, because it may be impressive because of the size of the pathology, it may be impressive because of the results you have achieved with the surgery. But I think every single case for itself is important. It may be not so subjective to surprise, or for a lot of people be extremely complicated when you see the picture. I don't think that there are impressive cases in what we are doing. Maybe we have impressive results because we don't expect to have a bad result in a good surgery or a good result in a bad surgery. But I think every single case is for the surgeon important and impressive. I can show you tons of big discs that have been successfully operated, but I can show you also one small disc causing serious neurological deficits, and after a surgery that's technically really not demanding, the patient recovers completely, so the term impressive is a very relative one in my opinion.
10、至今您最自豪的職業成就是什麼，為什麼？
What is your proudest career achievement to date and why?
wojiaoderangwozuiyinyiweihaodejiushishenbianmeitianhewogongshidetongshi。womenbujinjinshiyigebumen，haishiyigetuandui，guanlituanduixuyaohenduodejinglihejingyan。wodetuanduijiushiwozuizihaodechengjiu。chulexingzhengguanlishangdechengjiu，wohaihenzihaozhe40年來病人和同事對我的認可。
I've also been thinking about that question as well. I believe that my proudest achievement is the group of people I have around me working with me every day. I don't call it a department, but it's a team, and to keep that team working, you need a lot of efforts, a lot of experience, and I think that’s the proudest achievement I have. That's the part of the administrative part and the rest is the recognition of the patients and my colleagues during the last forty years.
11、您的科室一年的手術量有多少？以及您至今做了多少台胸腔鏡脊柱手術？
Gloryren adds: How many spine surgery that are performed in your department every year and how many thoracoscopic spine surgery that you have performed so far?
現在我們一年的手術量是1100到1200台，這隻是脊柱手術的數量。可能這個手術量在中國不足為奇，但是在德國已經算很多了。到2021年為止，我已經主刀了3000多台胸腔鏡脊柱手術。
We are performing now about eleven to twelve hundred surgeries a year. And that amount is being done for spine surgeons. For China, these numbers are not so big, but for Germany, they're big enough. I've just made a summary until 2021, and I went above 3,000 thoracoscopic spine surgery performed by myself.
12、您對年輕的脊柱外科醫生有什麼建議？
What advice would you give to young spine surgeons?
保持好奇心、忠於你的身份和職責、永yong遠yuan相xiang信xin一yi切qie皆jie有you可ke能neng。這zhe是shi我wo給gei年nian輕qing脊ji柱zhu外wai科ke醫yi生sheng的de三san個ge建jian議yi，也ye是shi我wo職zhi業ye生sheng涯ya裏li一yi直zhi奉feng行xing的de準zhun則ze。如ru果guo我wo沒mei有you保bao持chi好hao奇qi心xin，隻zhi是shi隨sui波bo逐zhu流liu，跟gen著zhe主zhu任ren醫yi師shi或huo者zhe其qi他ta同tong行xing做zuo一yi樣yang的de手shou術shu，我wo就jiu不bu會hui發fa明ming出chu胸xiong腔qiang鏡jing手shou術shu還hai有you其qi他ta入ru路lu的de手shou術shu。要yao常chang問wen自zi己ji：這(zhe)件(jian)事(shi)可(ke)行(xing)嗎(ma)？這(zhe)件(jian)事(shi)可(ke)能(neng)做(zuo)得(de)成(cheng)嗎(ma)？如(ru)果(guo)你(ni)不(bu)能(neng)堅(jian)持(chi)初(chu)心(xin)，後(hou)果(guo)將(jiang)是(shi)一(yi)事(shi)無(wu)成(cheng)，即(ji)使(shi)前(qian)方(fang)困(kun)難(nan)重(zhong)重(zhong)，隻(zhi)要(yao)我(wo)們(men)堅(jian)持(chi)，事(shi)情(qing)就(jiu)會(hui)有(you)轉(zhuan)機(ji)。
Be curious, be committed to what you are and what you are doing, and never accept the words “it's not possible”. I think those are the three advice that I can give them, and those are the three things I've always been doing during my career. I wouldn't have developed thoracoscopic surgery or all the other approaches I'm using if I would have just done what my chief was doing or what the others are doing, and that was the result of a curiosity. Can it be done? Is it possible to do it? And if you don't stick to your plan, you will end up doing nothing, so even if you have drawbacks, you should keep working on it and it will happen that as some sort of solution appears in the horizon and leads you to the solution of the problems you are facing.
13、假如您不從醫的話，您會從事什麼行業？
What would you have been if you had not been a medical doctor?
這是個好問題，我想可能我會成為一名農業工程師。越是了解這個行業，你就會發現它還涉及生物知識、商業知識，而且這個行業有很大的空間讓你發揮創意。現在我們在研究如何以更快速、經(jing)濟(ji)實(shi)惠(hui)的(de)方(fang)式(shi)運(yun)輸(shu)農(nong)作(zuo)物(wu)，長(chang)途(tu)運(yun)輸(shu)農(nong)作(zuo)物(wu)對(dui)於(yu)阿(e)根(gen)廷(ting)來(lai)說(shuo)是(shi)個(ge)問(wen)題(ti)，我(wo)想(xiang)中(zhong)國(guo)應(ying)該(gai)也(ye)有(you)同(tong)樣(yang)的(de)問(wen)題(ti)。我(wo)們(men)可(ke)以(yi)等(deng)時(shi)機(ji)成(cheng)熟(shu)再(zai)討(tao)論(lun)這(zhe)個(ge)技(ji)術(shu)，現(xian)在(zai)它(ta)還(hai)是(shi)個(ge)雛(chu)形(xing)。
Another good question, probably I would have been an agricultural engineer, because the more I get involved with the topic, you have the biological parts, you have the entrepreneur part and you have also the room enough to develop new things. So in fact, we are working on an idea I have in order to have crops transported in a very quick and cheap way, that's a problem in Argentina because of the long distances, and it should be a problem in China as well, but we'll talk about it when the time is mature for it, now it's just a project.
14、除了學醫外，您還有什麼興趣愛好？
What are your interests and hobbies outside medicine?
我的愛好就是足球、旅遊和烹飪。
That's easy, soccer, traveling and cooking.
